Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205
04/12/2012 09:00 AM Senate STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB281 | |
| HB190 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HB 281 | ||
| = | HB 190 | ||
HB 190-PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCE
9:08:00 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI announced that the next bill before the
committee would be HB 190, which proposes to amend laws related
to Permanent Fund Dividend allowable absences.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI requested a motion to adopt the new SCS,
version K, for HB 190.
SENATOR MEYER moved to adopt the proposed SCS for CS for SS for
HB 190, labeled 27-LS0564\K, as the working draft before the
committee.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI objected for discussion purposes. He recalled
committee discussion the previous day regarding the concept of
putting dividends for individuals who have been absent from the
state for many years into an escrow account of sorts. Ms.
Bitney, Director of the Permanent Fund Dividend Division,
indicated that tens of thousands of dividends have been issued
to individuals living out of state. She also said that at one
time it appeared that only 80 individuals had actually returned
to Alaska out of thousands who had lived Outside for an extended
period of time and received dividends. He said he believed she
has been developing new statistics to consider.
At-ease from 9:09 a.m. to 9:10 a.m.
9:10:00 AM
KENDRA KLOSTER, staff, Senator Bill Wielechowski, testified
during the discussion of HB 190. She addressed the changes in
version K of HB 190. She explained that, based on some of the
information provided by Ms. Bitney regarding individuals who
move from Alaska and do not return to the state, the bill was
changed to create an escrow account to hold the PFD's until
those individuals move back to the state.
MS. KLOSTER noted that the largest change is in Section 6 of the
bill and deals with the escrow account. If a person claims
allowable absences for years 1-5, they would receive the PFD as
usual; however, if a person claims an allowable absence after
year 5, the PFD would be deposited into an account until that
individual returns.
MS. KLOSTER described a number of conforming changes. In Section
1, a person is conditionally eligible under AS 43.23.009, the
escrow account. In Section 2, the 5-year rule is described. In
Section 3, the change refers to holding the PFD until the
individual returns to the state. Section 4 excludes the military
from the 10-year rule. Section 5 puts the 5-year rule into
statute.
DEBBIE BITNEY, Director, Permanent Fund Dividend Division,
Department of Revenue, answered questions relating to HB 190.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI voiced appreciation for Ms. Bitney's work on
the legislation. He noted that version K of HB 190 removes the
10-year rule. He asked for a report on how many people received
PFD's when the 10-year rule was in place.
9:15:00 AM
MS. BITNEY reported that, since the inception of the program in
1982, there were 321,600 dividends issued to people who did not
live in Alaska for various reasons. The total of that amount was
$424 million. She said she was able to determine that since
1995, the state has paid 900 individuals who were out of Alaska
10 years or more, $16 million in PFD's. Of people who were out
of Alaska for 5 years or more, 11,000 people were paid PFD's
totaling $116 million. About 81 of the 900 individuals moved
back to Alaska. She noted that the longer a person is gone from
Alaska, the less likely it is that they will return.
SENATOR MEYER inquired if 81 people had returned after a 10-year
period or longer of being away.
MS. BITNEY said yes.
SENATOR MEYER asked if Ms. Bitney knew the return numbers for
those who had been gone for only 5 years.
MS. BITNEY said she did not.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked Ms. Bitney for her opinion of version
K.
MS. BITNEY related that version K is something the division had
looked a previously and had thought was doable.
Administratively, it does not create a large burden for the
division. She called it a "wash" as far as impact to the
division.
9:20:00 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI stated that the goal of the PFD is for people
who live in Alaska, or are planning to return to Alaska, to
receive the benefit. The intent of the bill is to spend PFD
money in Alaska, for Alaskans, as well as to ensure that those
serving in the military continue to be eligible to receive
PFD's.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked Representative Feige if he had had a
chance to see version K.
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC FEIGE, sponsor of HB 190. He noted that he
had read version K and had an opinion on it.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI asked for his opinion.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE stated that the original intent of HB 190
was to provide for Alaskan residents to be able to collect their
PFD's during a military career. He opined that putting PFD's
into an escrow account, as required in version K, would be
perceived as taking PFD money away from the person in the
present. There is no provision for accounting for time-valued
money, or interest. He pointed out that an escrow account was
considered at one time, but it was thought to be too
complicated.
He stated that establishing in statute the requirements for
defining an intent to return to Alaska would screen those who
did not qualify for a PFD. The money would then be dispersed in
the present to people who are deserving of a PFD, as opposed to
money being held in an account. He concluded that the previous
version of the bill before the committee adequately covered the
"intent to return" issue.
SENATOR KOOKESH asked if there were any other changes in the
bill that would require it to be returned to the House for
concurrence.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE explained that there were changes in the
bill which reinstituted the 10-year rule, but made exemptions
for members of Congress and the military, and the governor's
representative in Washington, DC.
9:25:00 AM
SENATOR KOOKESH stated that he did not want to see HB 190
returned to the House for concurrence due to changes having been
made. He inquired if there were any other changes in version K
that would require that be done.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE said no.
SENATOR KOOKESH suggested adopting the bill without the escrow
account change.
SENATOR MEYER opined that Senator Kookesh was trying to help the
sponsor. He commented that it was interesting to see that not
many people return to Alaska after a 10-year period. He said he
also wished to keep the bill moving.
SENATOR KOOKESH stated that he liked the original intent of the
bill.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE stated that if version K was adopted,
reported out of committee, and passed by the Senate, he would
have to recommend non-concurrence and it would go to conference
committee on the House side.
SENATOR KOOKESH asked if there was time for that process. He
inquired if the bill had another committee of referral.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI said that State Affairs was the only
committee of referral.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE noted that the statistics Ms. Bitney spoke
of are as a result of weak statutory requirements for reporting
an intent to return to the state. The requirements have been in
regulation and subject to appeal. He maintained that putting the
requirements for the intent to return into statute would greatly
reduce the number of qualified applicants for the PFD.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI noted the arrival of Senator Paskvan. He
summarized the discussion so far. He pointed out that any
changes made in committee would require concurrence by the
House.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI noted that there was a previous version of
the bill, version Y.
At-ease from 9:29 a.m. to 9:32 a.m.
SENATOR PASKVAN related that 90 percent of individuals gone from
the state for over 10 years don't return to Alaska. He deemed
that a substantial problem. He questioned why the House would
not want to correct that problem and concur with version K.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE agreed that those statistics present a
problem. He pointed out that they occurred during years when
language in statute did not specify or define the "intent to
return." One of the objectives of HB 190 is to give the PFD
Division backup to be able to deny PFD's based on the criteria
for "intent to return."
9:35:00 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI noted the arrival of Senator Giessel.
SENATOR PASKVAN understood Representative Feige's explanation.
He wished to have someone from the PFD Division state that HB
190 would lessen the failure rate from 90 percent to something
better.
SENATOR KOOKESH restated his concern.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI related that he sponsored this identical bill
in the Senate and had similar concerns. The problem is that when
the 10-year rule is removed, the potential floodgate is opened
for people who live out of state to receive a PFD for a longer
period of time. He said the 5-year rule is the counter to that
in the hopes of protecting Alaskans' PFD's.
SENATOR KOOKESH restated his concern.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI agreed with the time constraint, but did not
want to put policy in place that would allow people to live out
of state and collect a dividend, knowing 90 percent were
unlikely to return.
SENATOR KOOKESH argued that version K would not prevent that
from happening.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI disagreed. He said it provides that if a
person does not return and re-establish residency, they don't
collect a PFD.
SENATOR MEYER requested Ms. Bitney to address if version Y does
tighten up the "intent to return" idea. He also inquired what
would happen to the money in the escrow account.
9:40:00 AM
MS. BITNEY recalled the time when she was approached by the bill
sponsor. She said she worked with Representative Feige's office
to create an environment where the division could do a better
job of determining whether or not a person actually intends to
return to Alaska. Currently, those rules do not exist in
statute; they are in regulation and are very weak. The
regulations are subject to argument and appeal by the applicant.
She maintained that putting the regulations into statute would
reduce the number of persons who simply have "paper ties" to the
state and receive a PFD. It would also provide the division with
the ability to do a better job of determining who has intent to
return. The regulations would contain criteria and use a point
system to ascertain who truly has intent to return.
9:45:00 AM
MS. BITNEY addressed Senator Meyer's question about the escrow
account. She noted that the division does not consider it an
escrow account, but rather considers it a "non-paid dividend."
The division would determine that the applicant would be
conditionally eligible and the funds would be held in the PFD
fund, not for that particular person, but as part of the whole
fund. When that applicant returned to the state, and applied for
the PFD's, if they were determined to qualify, they could
collect missed dividends. She compared it to the children's
dividend program.
SENATOR KOOKESH inquired how many people do not return because
they are deceased or ill.
MS. BITNEY replied that the 81 people who did return were from
the military. She did not know why the others did not return.
SENATOR PASKVAN stated that the 90 percent non-return rate was
the most troubling fact. He said he appreciated the intent
language of the bill. He asked how much that number would be
reduced.
MS. BITNEY could not say, but she opined that it would be a
significant change because by putting the language into statute,
the division would have tools to assess who is serious about
returning to Alaska.
SENATOR PASKVAN asked how much of an administrative burden it
would be to retain the non-paid dividend, as well as having
intent language.
MS. BITNEY replied that it would not be a substantial burden on
the division. The division is set up to assess eligibility and
to make payments.
SENATOR PASKVAN said he did not want to kill the bill. He stated
approval of both concepts: increasing the intent and preventing
abuse of the system.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI voiced appreciation for everyone's time. He
suggested three options: the House version of the bill [version
L], version K, or recess to the call of the chair.
SENATOR KOOKESH said he would support either version because
both versions have merit. He wanted to see a version of the bill
that would pass the Senate and be available to the division now.
9:50:00 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI pointed out that the concept in version K was
the same as in a bill that was filed several years ago in the
House and contained 20 co-sponsors.
SENATOR KOOKESH debated the process the bill may have to go
through.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE stated that version Y of the bill was the
intermediate version between the House version and version K. He
recommended adopting the House version of the bill. He said he
has not seen a copy of version Y, which would reinstitute the
10-year rule with exclusions for the military. He said he
thought he could recommend concurrence on version Y.
9:52:23 AM
SENATOR MEYER asked Representative Feige if he had said he would
not recommend concurrence on version K.
REPRESENTATIVE FEIGE said that was correct. He maintained
version K would be too much of a change and take too much time
to analyze. The Y version is a relatively simple change and has
been debated by the House.
SENATOR MEYER suggested the committee needed to make the right
public policy call, but he agreed with Senator Kookesh about
concurrence.
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI reviewed the options.
9:54:17 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI recessed the meeting to the call of the
chair.
10:03:32 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI reconvened the meeting and continued the
discussion of HB 190.
SENATOR MEYER moved to rescind his motion to adopt the proposed
SCS for CS for SS for HB 190, labeled 27-LS0564\K, as the
working draft before the committee. There being no objection,
the motion carried.
10:03:37 AM
CHAIR WIELECHOWSKI requested a motion to adopt version Y of HB
190.
SENATOR PASKVAN moved to adopt the proposed SCS for CSSSHB
190(), labeled 27-LS0564\Y, as the version of the bill before
the committee. There being no objection, version Y was the
document before the committee.
SENATOR PASKVAN moved to report SCS for CSSSHB 190(STA), version
Y, from committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying zero fiscal note. There being no objection, SCS
CSSS HB 190(STA) was reported from the Senate State Affairs
Standing Committee.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 04 SPONSOR STATEMENT HB 190.pdf |
HSTA 3/31/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| HB 190 FINAL.pdf |
SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 05 HB 190 Support Letter Denali Borough Mayor.pdf |
HSTA 3/31/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 06 HB 190-DOR-PFD-3-30-11 PFD Military Exemption.pdf |
HSTA 3/31/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 07 HB 190 Legal Memo Lisa Kirsch 3-18-11.pdf |
HSTA 2/7/2012 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 11 2012 HB 190 PFD 2011 Extended Absence Questionnaire.pdf |
HSTA 2/7/2012 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 12 2012 HB 190 Residency and Allowable Absences15 AAC 23 .pdf |
SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 12 2012 HB 190 Residency and Allowable Absences15 AAC 23 .pdf |
HSTA 2/7/2012 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 13 2012 HB 190 PFD Allowable Absences.pdf |
HSTA 2/7/2012 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| 16 HB 190 Ten Year Numbers Memo.pdf |
HSTA 2/14/2012 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 190 |
| HB0281A.pdf |
SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 281 |
| 6 Supporting_Doc HB 281.pdf |
HMLV 2/9/2012 1:00:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 281 |
| 7 Sponsor Statement_Vietnam Veterans Day- HB 281.pdf |
HMLV 2/9/2012 1:00:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 281 |
| 8 Fiscal Note HB281-DOA-FAC-2-4-12.pdf |
HMLV 2/9/2012 1:00:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 281 |
| CSHB3.pdf |
SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 02 HB 3 Sponsor Statement.pdf |
HSTA 1/27/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 03 HB 3 Current Statute.pdf |
HSTA 1/27/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 05 DOL memo-constitutionality of HB 3.pdf |
HSTA 2/1/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| 06 HB 3 - 26 States with Length of Authorized Stay Requirement.pdf |
HSTA 2/1/2011 8:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| HB 3 Explanation of Changes.doc |
HFIN 2/22/2011 1:30:00 PM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| HB 3 State by State Analysis.doc |
HFIN 2/22/2011 1:30:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| HB3 ACLU Letter.pdf |
HFIN 2/22/2011 1:30:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| HB 3 - Opposing Document - Conway.pdf |
SSTA 4/7/2011 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 |
| HB367 Support Document-Letter abada & amhb 3-28-12.pdf |
HHSS 4/3/2012 3:00:00 PM SSTA 4/11/2012 9:00:00 AM SSTA 4/12/2012 9:00:00 AM |
HB 3 HB 367 |